On January 01, 2010 mtk said:
I take exception when you write:
“the poor and developing countries that stand to lose the most from climate change.”
and would postulate a slightly different take on what you call “COP15″ …
The fact is global warming could be GOOD for some countries or places. Scientists in countries near the equator have been discussing this. It is unclear what the rise in waters could mean.
The range of effects planet-wide are incomprehensible, perhaps beyond man’s capacity to label and understand.
We are at the dawn of acknowledging that our actions are having effects on a global scale and at the dawn of comprehending our planet as a globe, as a whole.
If anything, what the talks and all the B.S. media surrounding the talks, shows, is
1. we do not wholly understand our industrial and technological production’s effect on the planet, but have acknowledged it exists in these past 30 years. Those who deny it ought to be viewed as truly deluded. Science, from the ozone layer to carbonification of the ocean, has confirmed it.
2. many scientists, environmentalists, progressives and non-scientific communities are and have been STARTLED by visible effects in communities around the world and in our atmosphere for decades.
3. however, many people concerned about this are simply mouthing phrases they’ve memorized with little comprehension of our planet or these effects. They do not KNOW with certainty what will happen, and – probably due to what Adam Curtis called an original strategy of the Environmental Activists in the 1970′s – talk about climatic and social collapse in dire, apocalyptic terms.
4. corporate interests are now deeply engaged in anti-science, designed to provide them leverage. anti-statistics and etc. they cannot be trusted and have been exposed. Monsanto, Occidental, Shell, Chevron …
5. we must gain greater control over our mode of production and consumption, globally.
I find some degree of hope in that COP 15 received as much attention as it did and the issues themselves were churned with greater international public energy than Kyoto 91.
and I was not expecting a binding agreement, so actually the worst thing about it was Obama’s joke of an appearance that was offensive to many representatives of other countries.
Until the U.S.A. is humble in the face of its excesses and waste and its primary responsibility for the vast majority of the pollution of the last 50 years, it will be difficult to move forward.

On January 03, 2010 J. Rosencrantz said:
1. Why do you take exception to this phrase, mtk?
2. You say that global warming could be good for some countries or places near the equator. Can you give examples of this? You say that it is uncertain what the rise in waters could mean – but how could it be good for people in places like the Maldives or Bangladesh? What places / effects do you have in mind?
3. I agree that the future of something as complex as the climate cannot be known completely and with absolute certainty, of course. But asserting that scientific consensus cannot achieve an understanding of the trajectory and likely effects – at least in broad strokes – is going to far.

On January 04, 2010 mtk said:
sorry, “take exception” was wrong. I should have said, I am unconvinced that solely poor or developing countries stand to lose the most. I see now, too, that you meant “those poor and developing countries which” … and etc.
all right, but to elaborate, i was in India in 2007 and among a grou of Senior Scientists at the Salim Ali Center in central Tamil Nadu – a place plagued by drought and demand for water. These scientists were pointing to recent developments attributed to the global effects man is having on the climate and remarking how rains have been better for farmers in South India than in years. I think that desert communities of West Asia and Africa, extremely poor places that also rely in rains have been seeing this as wel (cannot cite, sorry)
I’d like to take the example of man as a moving agent, a nomadic, herding society in flux. When the wall came down laborers moved. People have been gravitating to cities for the past 5 decades for different reasons. Man moves about in response and reaction and has “developed’ an intensely continuously flowing global transportation industry that is environmentally suspect.
I think climate change could lead to a more spread out humanity. It could lead to us changing where and how we live. The environmental degradation has been horrifying to me and the impending concatenation of extinctions terrifies and mativates me to act and communicate about this, but still – we just don’t know enough is the “truth”.
[Hey! It’s like after the elections – “too close to call” is the truth, but people get urgently deluded by a false need for an answer and so the outcome is easily manipulated and so truth itself is manufactured – same way with environment is what I am saying

On January 11, 2010 PJ said:
Funny thing happened in the news today. GW believing scientists (see Pro Latif for example) admitted that we have entered a period of Global Cooling. The Arctic ice sheet is expanding. This all coincides with increased solar activity that is reversing the shrinking heliosphere trend. Thus, Mars is also cooling (it’s warming cycle mirrored earth’s). Bottomline: the CO2 cause was not settled science. The heliosphere theory now is.

On January 13, 2010 oOOo said:
I appreciate your concern and exposure of many of these topics, but you are way off base on this one. I was fooled by the hype too until I started reading up on it. Read up on Milankovitch cycles, the cause and effect of cloud cover, cosmic rays, sunspot cycles, ocean current fluctuations, the way data is recorded, the little ice age, the medieval warming period, manns discredited hockey stick, how we have had cooling for the last 13 years, the previous 4 climate change dramas over the last century (cooling, warming, cooling, warming and perhaps now cooling again) etc. etc. etc.
AGW theory is based on faulty, manipulated, oversimplified and completely unreliable one sided climate models for political purposes. I suggest you read up on climategate and other topics here:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/

http://climateaudit.org/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stij8sUybx0

http://www.thecloudmystery.com/Home.html
Peace.